91 thoughts on “Let’s Discuss This Harriet Movie | @Jouelzy

  1. It’s distasteful for a woman to mocks the Black American experience to portray one of Black America’s most beloved heroes

  2. It's been propagated by black impersonators account, it looks root in white troll circle. That muddy the discourse on purpose to sour the discussion, they love "triggering" tactics as they call it. That makes talking about this really difficult.

  3. Ok well when African Americans play rolls meant for continental Africans or Jamaicans or hatians, etc the rest of y'all better not say anything. The cast of black panther was predominantly black people directly from Africa, as it should have been. However, if that movie was majority African Americans, Africans would've had a fit, and you know it.
    This comes down to lack of respect for African Americans and how everyone wants us to just shut up accept abuse and mistreatment from any and every one.
    You telling me if a African American played the roll of a historic figure from Jamaica or the Bahamas or Haiti, we wouldn't have push back? We absolutely would.

  4. Afam can't police who can play black role and they are counting on that to create confusion. And that's the thing we use infrastructure and mean not designed for us, we need our own and that mean looking beyond America to create opportunities without the master's tools. But then they blinded Afam about the world anyway so Adam thinks the only way up is white infrastructure.

  5. Underground spoiled me and now I have such high standards of what I expect from historical slave movies and tv shows. I am betting I will be disappointed by Harriet.

  6. Excellent, objective, well articulated and nuanced review of the movie. I haven’t seen it and it’s unlikely I will see it in the theaters but I just wanted to say that ANY PhD program would be lucky to have you as a graduate student there.

  7. As always very thoughtful and intelligent review. I thought the movie was good not great. I also hope they make more movies about Harriet Tubman

  8. They didn’t make us empathize with those who did not leave with her, despite that being valid and reasonable.

    Same thoughts about the biracial woman not looking ambiguous.

  9. The Britishness! I am so glad you said this because I agree with that. I think Hollywood has always felt like British acting is more elevated than American and the casting we've been getting, plus social media being so active has really brought this issue to the forefront in ways that are not productive if you don't look at the history and put it into context. The conversation is absolutely important, but I think people are often not talking with the same good faith.

  10. Personally, I don't think it'd be that big of a deal if black people from other corners of the world wasn't so bitter and nasty hateful towards aftican Americans. it's like why? Why y'all hate us so much? we are not the ones in your countries killing your people and taking your resources. Then getting on TV with some commercial saying how you can sponsor a aftican/haitian child for only 59Cents a day. 🤨 we're not doing that but y'all hate us as if we done some of the most horrible shit to y'all. Yet I don't see y'all given the proper group of people that same energy. 👀
    Y'all wanna be the new niggas of America so bad. Not realizing, yes whites may be more accepting of you but thats because you'll do more and demand less and when you fuck up and start getting too comfortable, they can deport you right back to your countries.

  11. I was waiting to hear an unbiased opinion abt the film and i think i will bootleg it. I think ppl want to associate dignity with what our ancestors endured, and that may have a murky connection to casting classically trained british actors, but i want them to be honest in how chattel slavery is portrayed. I feel like they did that from roots through the 90s but in the shifts in what narratives hollywood supports, they are only that honest when there is a way to individualize or make fantastic (in the sense that ppl suspend disbelief) so it can't be connected to present society or just sets up a white actor for awards season. I grew up going to AfAm and holocaust museums, watched roots and Schindler's list in school. I want dramas that humanize and maintain integrity abt the horrors of this country.

  12. Your comment towards the end about the kind of disrespect that the humanities get in the black community really hit home because I'm a lover of philosophy and literature and people tell me 'Oh you're never going to make money.' I think it speaks to the broader societal push toward STEM but I feel like that is even more acute in minority communities because it all comes back to capitalism and under capitalism is all about accruing and maintaining wealth. The only way to do that under a system like this is to high-powered, well-paying job and there are certainly obstacles to accomplishing that so parents grandparents and the community-at-large with the best of intentions push you into a field that they know will be able to financially support you even though life is not all about making money. Once again you can't be mad at marginalized people operating under a system that they have known their entire life and expect them to know how to change.

  13. I definitely won't be seeing this movie neither on the big screen or on my phone screen. I'm jamaican and I appreciate everything that black ppl in america have done to pave the way for me. Sure Jamaica was engulfed in slavery as well and who cares if it was as bad or better. The fact is slavery is slavery. I cant get over that bitch of a woman who made fun of black Americans and let me not get started on her non black dating history. How ironic. She wont benefit from my hard earning coins

  14. Nahh man West Africans are generally just a problem. I am so sorry, but I have to say it. Even within Africa. There’s arrogance…a superiority complex to West Africans seriously. When I talk to my other African friends (South Africans, Angolans, Congolese) they say the same things about West Africans. We need to haven a honest conversation about how West Africans disrespect and terrorize the rest of the diaspora. I’m glad African Americans are seeing what the rest of Africans having dealing with when it comes to Nigerians and Ghanaians!

  15. I can't focus on the movie review bc I'm looking at this unit sitting on your head! Beatiful!!! Next review on this please ❤

  16. Thank you for highlighting the British angle to Hollywood casting of black actors. Ava DuVernay has also gushed about how 'classically trained' they are in comparison to Black American actors. There is definitely an image of 'better quality' in the American view of the British, even amongst black Hollywood. I also think they find them safer in that they will be less likely to speak out against the complex issue of racism in the U.S. Sure they'll say racism exists but, they'll be able to say "I'm not from here" if heat gets too high, directors can point the finger at Black Americans "complaining" rather than address real issues. I'm patiently waiting for the true, historically accurate Harriet Tubman movie because this was not it!

  17. I also thought the movie was good not great. I just wished they gave more context into Harriets life when she was growing up. Like I wanted them to portray why she started passing out and having visions instead of her just dropping in the middle of a scene. I also thought it would’ve been better if it didn’t seem so choppy and it actually showed the horrors of slavery, like you said. never the less, i think it was a good film, it just could’ve been better.

  18. I apologize for putting y’all in a box but Will we ever get a collab/ discussion with Kim from @ForHarriet? I enjoy both your commentaries/ discussions on the various topics y’all a discuss.

  19. No they pro,mote the fact they think they are better than us and they promote the thing of what white people think about us.

  20. Luvvie has “misspoke” more than once. I hope you got a check out of this review, because GIRL. Keep it a bean, this ain’t it

  21. I would loved to have seen Sharon Warren play the role of Harriet. She played the mother in the Ray Charles movie. Personally I won't be paying to see the movie because Focus Features is owned by Comcast.

  22. It has nothing to do with her being African. The isssue lies with the individual. Its like having Kanye play an historical black figure in slavery but believes it was a choice. I dont see why its so confusing to see. We do it for other people american or not. If people in the diaspora continue to blame us for being the product of slavery, then we don't need to support them PERIOD. Ya'll tall shit about our ancestors for how they chose to navigate slavery but want to play these roles of the people they disrespect? Like… idk

  23. Did you see Kerry Washington’s tweet supporting the movie and her husband’s production of it? He’s also Nigerian-American and like you said – they certainly stick together. Whatever happened to Luuvie and the Shonda Rhimes partnership.

  24. I agree I left feeling like ok? But went to see it because I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I think it would be a great discussion starter.

  25. I liked the movie, and I agree, it was rather sanitized, like a Disney version of events. I hope that there will be more movies about Harriet that do go more in depth

  26. IMO it’s the individual. Most black ppl don’t have a problem with different ethnicities playing us its HER. Some of the best ppl I met in college were from Africa. The Congo, The Gambia, Liberia. They were my first real encounter with Africans. Loved them to death! It wasn’t until my 20s I really met Nigerians and their energy was different. In a not so good way SOMETIMES. Not all of the ones I met though.

  27. I hear you, Jouelzy, we do seem to fall over at hearing a British accent. This is especially the case with "Classically trained" actors and it does seem to slide into a smelly Eurocentric pandering. But the story is made up so…when a true narrative is created then we can bring out the pitchforks for miscasting issues.

  28. I went. I watched. It was blah. I am not interested in seeing it again. Seeing Janelle Monae's character be violently killed seemed unnecessary and was hard to watch.

  29. I think the gushing over British actors is sometimes warranted. White or black, the ones that are famous are very well trained. I also love that British productions tend to value talent over looks. But there are definitely lots of talented American actors too.

    I also wish we had more black actors. Michael B Jordan, Viola Davis, and Mahershala Ali are in everything. I want more black actors on tv too. Young black actors. I was thinking about all the black sitcoms we had in the 90s and 2000s. I miss seeing a variety of black people on TV.

  30. Yeah I wanted to see this movie with my Haitian ass mother and even she was apposed to seeing it because of the inaccuracies she’s read about on the Internet, I just think black art deserves to have much more thought put into it.

  31. I want you and Kimberly from For Harriet to collab on a video so badly. Especially after hearing you both speak on the casting on non Black Americans to portray prominent African Americans in media.

  32. Thank goodness that we have the Aretha biopic with Jennifer Hudson, so we can completely ignore the garbage coming with Erivo about Aretha Franklin.

  33. The film was made for family consumption. The children I saw the film with loved it and wanted to learn more. It was a great jump-off platform for more discussions. There must be more movies about Harriet, about the underground railroad, about free black americans after the revolutionary war, about the struggles of black feminists during the times of abolition and women's suffrage. I want to see stories about red-lining. We need Sojourner Truth films. This was a great start. They didn't want to show the horrors of slavery which folks are very loud about NOT wanting to see. Harriet did sing work songs to tell enslaved africans that she was there. Harriet did a lot of footwork. Cynthia fit the bill as an actress for her singing voice, her strong black features, her athletic ability, and her short stature. In Harriet's own journals, she was a woman of extremely strong faith. She did have "visions" and believed strongly that those visions were from God that did guide her path. It could have been a much better film. It should have been a two part film. It covered too long of a period of time. It was a good, not great film. I enjoyed it.

  34. So it is interesting that you point out this movie being more geared towards children because I planned a field trip for my students to go see a movie of their choice ( that wasn't rated R ) and I was pleasantly surprised when they chose to see Harriet. I was excited to see the movie with them and hoped it lived up to their expectations. They were very engaged while at the theater and said afterwards they really enjoyed the movie. Obviously as someone who has special interest in African American history I figured there would be inconsistencies in the film. I wasn't really pressed about it because there are so many films out there that aren't consistent with what really happened throughout history not to mention I feel like if you are reliant on Hollywood entertainment to be your teacher you should definitely reevaluate your life. The simple solution for those inconsistencies as a teacher would definitely be to have students compare the movie against historical research and discuss the similarities and differences they found. I had no clue about the controversy surrounding the tweets from lead actress (which are very disappointing and concerning) because I don't have Twitter and I apparently live under a rock. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this movie I was beginning to think I was crazy trying to figure out what I missed with the whole white savior/lover thing 😂😅.

  35. Thank you smart brown girl because I share some of the same critiques as you and now I feel like I too am a smart brown girl!

  36. Majority of British actors that make it to America are very well trained and come from very posh backgrounds. They definitely sell that prim proper idealism of what it is to be British very well and America is eating it up.

  37. I really wish, when some people explain their point of view, they'd be honest (with themselves & others they are speaking to) about their own inherent biases toward the topic they're speaking about.

    Removing that makes their discussion makes their words mean less than they might actually be. Influencers & celebs do this shit a lot cuz they have a big public mega phone.

  38. I'll stick to the animated version that i watched in grade schools. Until Viola Davis comes out with her Harriet film.

  39. Firstlty Not all West Africans are like the Voltron click, we are not a monolith. She is an actress and having come across her in danse classes back in London she's always been and still is extremely ambitious and she always goes after big and challenging projects, that the person I remember so I was not surprised when she announced she landed the job.
    I vote for politicies not the person who represents the party I want to vote for so this is how I approach these situations. Even if it's not perfect at least it's something.
    A door has been opened for more stories to be told.

  40. Ervio has just rubbed Black Americans the wrong way, because plenty of non-American actors/ actresses (as you pointed out with Hinds) are being casted in roles and are embraced by Black American audiences.
    Hollywood is definitely trying to push her as the musical version of Lupita. IDK if she has contracts with a studio or something but Lupita is utterly charming and endearing…Ervio comes off a bit elitist. Unfortunately I feel Janelle Monae is (ideologically) rapidly heading down that path too.

  41. These diaspora wars raise some relevant conservations but in general they are tiresome. A significant enough number of African American heros are actually Caribbean either fully/in part. I.e. Shirley Chisholm, Malcolm X, Biggie Smalls..even modern day actresses like Kerry Washington – her Mum is Jamaican. Do people do their research? The diaspora is an exchange in the same way the transatlantic slave trade was a triangle. People who are American descendants of slaves might well find out that they were Caribbean descendants of slaves 100 years prior. Folks got moved in between the two places. A significant number of the founding fathers of Hip Hop were Jamaicans from New York. Afrobeats borrows from black American and Caribbean music. British grime music derives heavily from hip hop as well as reggae, dupstep etc.

    The American fascination with British accents and British stuff in general is across the board. White people in England love talking about American slavery because they remove responsibility and don't have to engage with Britain's slavery history. I believe white Americans feel the same way about black Brits. Nigerian Brits are the loudest at the mo so people forget that us Caribbean Brits are very much descendants of slaves.
    When cool runnings, last king of scotland, Concussion came out, Africans and Caribs didn't have this kind of excessive energy about not being portrayed by people from that specific part of the diaspora. Even though most times African American actors don't even bother to even attempt to do Caribbean accents properly. I remember just being really happy to see black people on screen telling our stories.

    Cynthia Erivo's comments were wrong and she deserved to be called out, and there is a problem with west african (and some caribbean) snobbery towards African Americans but there is an equal abundance of ignorance on the part of AA's about the rest of the diaspora. We all need to be bettet educated, more thoughtful and hold the gatekeepers (i.e. white people running hollywood/prominent black folk doing casting) responsible, as opposed to focusing on actors who move to the US to get the work their home country won't give them.

  42. I don't think a universal rule needs to applied to all rules, I think it's more about playing historical roles aka prominent real people like you said. Cynthia is extremely talented so tbh if they were to give a non African American actor the role it would be her and like you said there is this mystique of Black Brit actors being classically trained which isn't true in all cases of all Black Brit actors that have "made it" in America. Haven't seen the movie yet and I'm in two minds whether to go support it with my money. The comments made about African Americans though, in my mind, were distasteful and come across as having a slight feel of superiority from luvvie and Janelle.

  43. I DON'T GET IT? WATCH OR CRITIQUE A BIOPIC THAT is TOTALLY MADE UP? A biography should NEVER contain falsehood. THIS MOVIE IS A LIE!!!

  44. I do think some foreign black people look down on black Americans but profit off of our stories and hard work, and it goes back to when you did that video about African American culture not being sacred. I don’t have a problem with non AA playing AA roles but, in the case of Cynthia it seems like she is building her career off of historical African American figures for the clout of it all rather than just being a actor picking up a variety of roles. Maybe I’m wrong but I have yet to hear her speak about african Americans as an ethnic group of people and what this story means to us. I just couldn’t imagine an AA playing a Nigerian hero and not talking about the Nigerian people and their culture 🤐

  45. A valid concern that I've learned about regarding the hiring of British classically trained actors is the idea that they are better and that American actors are not classically trained. I guess because of the portrayal of Hollywood, people are unaware that most of the Americans who had lead roles in Black Panther and people like Sterling K. Brown and Brian Tyree Henry are also classically trained and didn't just haphazardly start going on auditions because they wanted to be actor/actress. People think just because someone like Henry plays the role of "Paper Boy" that he didn't attend Yale School of Drama.

  46. I don’t think stories about Black American historical figures like Harriet Tubman , MLK, etc should be made into major films unless they are going to be 100% true to the story. Contrary to popular belief people like to watch these type of films to learn about history , and those same people come out of the theater thinking certain things happened when they actually didn’t.

  47. It's often the trouble with biopics that the interest isn't in the real story but making it as pretty and palatable as possible, it's a shame

  48. I agree that people dislike Cynthia Erivo because of her classist and exclusionary actions and that they are using her playing Harriet Tubman as a reason to come down on her. I understand why people would get upset over an actress who doesn't seem to respect African-Americans playing one of our most cherished historical figures. I already wasn't planning on seeing this movie and watching reviews has only further cemented that decision. Omg, when you played that clip of Cynthia on that hill with Nicki Minaj yelling in the background, I cackled lol.

  49. Can we talk about how Hollywood's "classically trained" argument has been used to flatter Black British actors to pay them less than they would Black American actors? In lauding Orivo for being the acceptable negro, she's not only getting shafted herself but she's participating in our oppression when she makes comments denigrating our culture. You can see how she, Luvvie, and Orji feel empowered by these stamps of approval from Hollywood to continue to dismiss the hurt they've caused i.e. Oprah's statement of "they're just haters". Idk… You were speaking of Black folks participating in/bolstering White Suppremacy and Slavery and I feel like this is fitting.

    When I moved to France, I noticed they have the same kind of diaspora wars stemming from the French colonies; you have the French-West Africans, the French Afro-Carribean (excluding Haiti), and then you have Haiti. There is a marked difference in their treatment here and then each part of the diaspora has something against another part. I've also seen this in the former Belgian colonies and former Portuguese colonies. Yes, we have distinct cultural differences but, the way in which we are engaging in this conversation bolsters White Suprremacy and keeps us from moving forward.

  50. It's Comcast connection alone will keep me from watching this movie. And all Black people should be keeping away. Check out the Byron Allen verses Comcast Supreme court case coming up on the 13 and how Comcast with Donald Trump's DOJ are planning to dismantle a historical Civil Rights Amendment and how that would be devastating to us all.

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